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Pamela DeNeuve

Lawyer & Law Firm Peak Performance Strategist

Lawyer of the Week Episode 7, Special Edition Part I – Lawyer Well-Being

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Patrick Krill

Founder and Principal at

Krill Strategies

A Leading Authority on Addiction and Mental Health Issues

Interview Transcript

Pamela: Welcome to Lawyer of the Week. I am so pleased to introduce you to Patrick Krill. Patrick Krill is the Principal and Founder of Krill Strategies, and I’d like to tell you more about Patrick after I say hello to him. Hello Patrick, how are you?

Patrick Krill: I’m good Pamela, how are you?

Pamela: I’m very good. Thank you so much for making time to be our Lawyer of the Week.

Patrick Krill: It’s my pleasure, I am happy to be here.

Pamela: Patrick is recognized as one of the leading authorities on substance abuse and mental health problems of lawyers. Patrick is the founder of Krill Strategies, which is a behavioral health-consulting firm exclusively for the legal profession. Patrick is an attorney licensed and board-certified alcohol and drug counselor, author, advocate and thought leader. His groundbreaking work in the field of attorney behavioral health includes initiating and serving as a lead author of the first and only national study on the Prevalence of Attorney Addiction and mental health concerns, a joint undertaking of the American Bar Association Commission on Lawyer Assistance Programs and the Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation that was published in the Journal of Addiction Medicine.

Patrick is a former director of Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation Legal Professionals Program, a preeminent clinical treatment program for addicted attorneys, judges and law students. He’s counseled hundreds of professionals all around the country and he has helped them to get on the road of recovery. He has been on CNN, contributed to CNN, to HuffPost and other national outlets.

So we could go on and on, but Patrick we’re so glad that you’re here, and we’re so excited to hear about the groundbreaking work that you’re doing in the area of addiction and lawyers.

Patrick Krill: Well, thanks again Pamela. I appreciate the invitation to be here with you today, and to be reaching your audience to discuss this work because as you and I were discussing earlier it’s not something that is spoken about enough in the legal profession

Pamela: Absolutely, well, I’m going to ask you the Lawyer of the Week questions, and we’re going to go way back to when you decided to become a lawyer. So what made you decide to become a lawyer in the first place?

Patrick Krill: Well, what made me decide to become a lawyer in the first place was my interest in the entertainment field, actually. We go way back. When I went to law school in Los Angeles my desire and my plan really was to get into entertainment law. I wanted to be making deals and doing deals around film and TV. That was my original intent.

Pamela: Okay great. As we talked about I’m from California as well, and lot of entertainment business out there and opportunities so it’s a good business.

Patrick Krill: And I learned once I was in law school and then I had the opportunity to work briefly at New Line Cinema that entertainment law is not what I thought it was, it’s a lot drier and I dare say a lot more mundane than I originally anticipated.

Pamela: Yes, okay. Well, a lot of lawyers are in for a surprise when they find out that what the real law is about, but the second question is what made you move into counseling and consulting?

Patrick Krill: So after practicing law for number of years in Los Angeles, I realized that something really wasn’t fulfilling me, and my own sort of personal and professional goals just weren’t being met. I didn’t really like going to work base on a day-to-day basis. I also was working at a large law firm very long hours. I was paying somebody to come walk my dogs. So that was sort of the lifestyle I had because I couldn’t even take care of two dogs at the time let alone have a family or friends or sort of tend to a life. So I knew something wasn’t clicking for me there, but I also had a desire to get into what I guess you could call a more helping profession.

Now, some people say that lawyers are essentially in the helping profession, but I wanted to do something a little bit more hands-on such as psychology or counseling. I ended up moving into addiction counseling and getting a master’s degree in addiction counseling and transitioning there into the work that I did. You mentioned that I was the former director of the Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation Legal Professionals Program, which is a clinical treatment program for attorneys, judges and law students so itwas perfect for me, because I was able to manage marry my background of practicing law with my new career path of counseling, specifically addiction counseling.

Pamela: That’s excellent. Now, what do you say are your biggest wins and your biggest challenges?

Patrick Krill: So in my new career the biggest wins so far for sure has been the publication of the study that I led last year. The study itself took place in 2014, 2015, but was published last year in the Journal of Addiction Medicine which was the first ever look at the prevalence of problems drinking, depression and anxiety among practicing lawyers. That felt like a career milestone, and that was the biggest win, and it really has opened up a lot conversation around these issues in the profession. So it was very gratifying work. I’ll tell you it was a slog getting that study done, but it was gratifying and I certainly count that as my biggest victory to date.

Pamela: Well, I have to tell you that I was very, very excited when I saw your study because I have in the work that I do encountered a lot of these issues in some of my clients, and so to see that it would have been documented and studied and was available to present to the greater legal community was very exciting for me.

Patrick Krill: Excellent.

Pamela: What would you say are your biggest challenges?

Patrick Krill: The biggest challenge that I currently face is that trying to advocate for, write about or facilitate a change towards well-being in the legal profession is swimming upstream. It is a hard sell often times in law firms, in bar associations, in law schools, really convincing people. Despite the fact that we now have really credible and strong data, it’s still a hard sell to get people to put some time and resources into these issues. So I guess it’s kind of a collective challenge; it’s not one discreet thing. It’s more broad really just a whole current that I’m swimming against and that other people doing this work are swimming against, but we’re getting there, we’re making progress.

Pamela: That’s for sure. Now, who would be a perfect a perfect referal for you in Krill Strategies?

Patrick Krill: Well, probably a law firm. The vast majority of my clients are law firms so the perfect referral would be for example a General Counsel or Managing Partner or if somebody of a firm were to call me and say we might have an issue, so how that person is referred to me is they come by a variety of means, but generally who I work with is law firms.

Pamela: Okay, great. Now, Patrick what is the legacy that you want to leave in your work that you’re doing?

Patrick Krill: The legacy that I want to leave in the work that I’m doing is having made a difference and having hopefully spearheaded some type of meaningful change in the culture of the legal profession as it relates to addiction and mental health specifically. Now addiction and mental health touch a lot of other things, but those are the two areas that I would like to say if I could make a dent in that through my work that would be fantastic.

Pamela: Wonderful, and what about you Patrick what do you do to manage your own stress?

Patrick Krill: Well, we’re chatting while I’m away on a short vacation so I’m not in the office. I’m kind of away and trying to get some down time. That’s something I look for when I can, I sort of get away and I sort of unplug and hopefully I’ll be unplugged for this weekend. But I exercise. I try and get some sort of exercise daily, whether it be walking, lifting weights, Yoga, whatever the case may be. Because I’m somebody who just kind of builds up a lot of energy and I need that physical activity, that exercise. So that something I’m pretty dedicated about.

Pamela: Well, one last question, what is something that you would like people to know about you, about Patrick Krill?

Patrick Krill: What is something? I guess that I’m a die-hard Pittsburgh sports fan. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh, and I think it must be something in the water, because I haven’t lived there in over 20 years, but I still root for the Steelers and the Penguins and the Pirates so those will always be my teams.

Pamela: You’re a die-hard. Well, thank you so much Patrick we really appreciate hearing about your work, the breakthroughs that are going on and the mission that you’re on, and thank you so much for making time in your busy schedule to be the Lawyer of the Week.

Patrick Krill: Thank you Pamela it was a pleasure.

Patrick Krill’s Links:

Email:  pkrill@hazeldenbettyford.org

prkrill.com

http://legalexecutiveinstitute.com/justice-ecosystem-midsize-national-task-force-report-lawyers-well-being/

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2017/08/growing_concern_over.html

http://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/about-us/news-media/press-release/2016-aba-hazelden-release-first-study-attorney-substance-use

Thank you for joining Lawyer of the Week!

 

Pamela DeNeuve

Lawyer & Law Firm Strategist

feel free to email me at:

pamela@pameladleneuve.com

We Hope to See You Next Week!

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Quotes from our Lawyer of the Week

  • I am here to protect the human rights and I will do the best in my capacity to do so.
    Diana Constantinidou
  • I love this work. I really do. To me, especially now more than ever, we need a strong news media. It’s not just a business. It’s part of our democracy.
    Edward Birk
  • You don’t have to be large and on the world stage to seize these opportunities and to apprehend these threats. It really is a function of the vision and the insight of the leaders. When they get it, then there’s an opportunity for them to persuade and help their partners get the message and act to remake themselves.
    George Beaton
  • I did not intend to create this legacy, but I see the ripple effects of it, and it’s so meaningful to me. I think that through the podcast, I’m also hoping to create a legacy of service to the profession.
    Okeoma Moronu
  • That’s one of the things that I find very satisfying; building bridges between people from different countries, working closely with them and seeking those deeply satisfying relationships that are created in cross-border trade and investment facilitation.
    John Grimley
  • I’m very lucky to have a family and a wife that absolutely just creates a life that’s there and that one can go to. I think about the stress that we experience in our work, that is the best we can offer. So I really live for that. It’s something to be grateful for.
    Nic Swart
  • The legacy that I want to leave in the work that I’m doing is having made a difference and having hopefully spearheaded some type of meaningful change in the culture of the legal profession, as it relates to addiction and mental health specifically.
    Patrick Krill
  • It’s not so much my practice that I want to make a difference in, but I want to know that I left the legal professional a little bit better than I found it.
    Courtney Wylie
  • the real reality is some of the lawyers, some of the law firms, are going to be left behind because they’re not moving into the current reality where they can’t just rely on referrals.
    Montina Portis
  • When you take a lawyer out of the system, you take the voice and the ability of the people to protect themselves from overreaching government and overreaching organizations out the equation.
    Ian Connor Bifferato
  • I think a lot of attorneys are very, obviously, economically driven, which is fine, because we all need to make a living. But, at the end of the day, I also think that we are in this profession to give back and I would like to see that happen to a greater degree.
    Dr. Jeanne-Mari Reteif
  • "I would like my clients to think of me as of being a valuable resource to them and a knowledgeable resource that helped them protect their business and the most valuable assets of their business, which is their inventions, their ideas, their brand and that they remember me as somebody they could go to at any time to help them protect their intellectual property assets.
    Crystal T. Broughan
  • The person I’m looking for is the one who is going to come along and say ok; we can’t just tweak what we do with law; we have to radically re-invent it.
    Ken Grady
  • So you have to be that person who is challenged again and again so that you will grow as an expert.
    Dr. Peter MacMillan
  • I always tell my clients and my friends and colleagues, it’s a two-way road. You know- you give, and you receive, you give back, and it keeps going that way. It’s wonderful.
    Fernanda Alem-Freitas
  • In terms of successes, I will tell you, having done this, I’ve gone much further and made more connections and more friends and more inroads into the industry much earlier in my career than I ever could have possibly imagined.
    Gene Quinn
  • my thinking was that I really need to understand what clients really wanted. So in order to really do a good job, I needed to find out what moves them, what kept them up at night.
    Silvia Hodges Silverstein
  • So when we talk about a legacy, it’s a legacy that people to this day tell me — oh, I remember working with your Grandfather and he was such an upright man. Wow, let’s hope they say that about me.
    Jordan W. Charness
  • this answer made me to become a lawyer instead of a mathematician.
    Anandavasagan K.
  • What I want to try to do is create the beacon, or the light toward, developing law firm culture, as in the legal profession culture in general...where they do find a sense of meaning, purpose, connection, joy and want to stay in the profession.
    Anne Brafford
  • it is my goal to try to increase diversity within our profession, and even for as long as I’m here, I will advocate for the inclusion of different perspectives, different peoples, and different ideas that can make this world a better place.
    Robert Johnson
  • I have learned a lot of things the hard way and if I can help others sort of avoid the mistakes I’ve made and have the vision I lacked, then that’s how I want to help
    Frank Ramos
  • "I’m sort of traditional with an edge. I have respect for tradition. I have respect for history, but I’m also very inquisitive. I like to, you know, sort of architect things.
    Mark A. Cohen
  • I am all or nothing. I believe that the world has enough mediocre people. I had a mentor tell me that once and I give 110% to everything I do.
    LaKeisha Randall
  • You’ll never know how high that peak can be unless you find recovery, and with recovery, anything is possible
    Brian Cuban
  • Being able to live and work anywhere in the world. And we do live, you know- we live in one of the most beautiful places in the world, in County Cork, Ireland now.
    Walt Hampton
  • You know, the best thing that anyone could possibly do is think about what’s important to them and get back to that really basic thing. Personally, professionally, financially. You know, where would you like to be? Because you can be there if you take a couple steps, you know? And it just- it can be incremental
    Bridget Venus Grimes
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    Mark A. Torres
  • My legacy really is to try to enhance the wellness of the members of our profession and to open up this dialog.
    Heidi K. Brown
  • At the end of my days, I want people to look back and say, "Yes, he really did make the world a better place and here are some concrete examples of places where he's influenced people, or influenced organizations, or cultures." So, if I can do that and leave that to the world, then I think I've done a pretty good job.
    Maurice L. Rabb
  • Pamela helped brought us a $12MM deal and was a key player to help finalize the negotiations. She was a valuable investment for our firm with a magnificent return on our investment.
    Bill L., Chairman of Litigation
  • I was on the verge of losing it. I felt confused and had no idea why I was practicing law in the first place. Pamela helped me to regain my enthusiasm and grow my practice enjoy my life again.
    Lewis M., Partner
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